Mari: 00:07
Through dangers untold and hardships unnumbered. I have fought my way here to the castle beyond the Goblin City to take back the child you have stolen. For my will is as strong as yours, and my kingdom is great. You have no power over me. Hello, and welcome to Of Swords and Soulmates, a podcast where we read, watch, and discuss fantasy and sci-fi stories spiced with romance and ask, is this a kissing book? I'm one of your hosts, Mari, and with me I have Kelly.

Kelly: 00:30
Hey everyone, it's Kelly. We also have Ashley.

Mari: 00:32
Hey guys, it's Ashley.

Ashley: 00:33
We also have Jonathan.

Jonathan: 00:34
What's good, everybody? It's JP. That was hey Mari, that was very nice.

Mari: 00:38
Didn't I uh love this movie? So today, this movie, today we're gonna be discussing the 1986 musical fantasy cult film Labyrinth.

Mari: 00:49
 But first, as always, we have some news. We don't have a lot of news, which is good because I have a lot to say about this movie. Just a little bit of news. The majority of the news stuff I have is villains and vixens related, which is upcoming rapidly. I think not the episode after this, but the one after that, you guys will hear our wrap-up of that con. Um, because we'll be going to the one in Orlando. But they did announce that um 2027 tickets for villains and vixens will go on sale August 7th, 2026, at 6 p.m. Central Time. It is going to be April 23rd and 24th, 2027, in Dallas, Texas. I know we vaguely talked about it, I think, last episode or the episode before, but that's when we have to make our decision by is by August as to whether or not we want to go and do this in April of next year. The other thing that they announced is that, well, there's several authors that have been announced, but I was really excited that DJ Russo is gonna be at Villains and Vixens. We met her at, I believe it was our first romanticy con.

Jonathan: 01:50
Yeah, yeah.

Mari: 01:51
Um, and she doesn't, she didn't live in the States. She lived uh overseas, and now she's moved back to the States. So she's gonna be at Villains and Vixens. She's got some new, like, she's done some new logos and kind of revamped her social media and and things. Um, and I think she's got some some stuff coming out. Like it's of course, anytime you move, everything kind of goes to standstill. But she's got some new things coming out. I don't know if she is going to have anything on like Viventi for pre-order, like some of the other authors do. But she did post about having like her books will be there and her, she'll have some um like postcards and some like merch for sale with the characters. I think she's got like maybe pins and keychains and things. The only other thing that I have that for Villains and Vixens, um, which I did not write down because I didn't find anywhere where it was available in one place, all the information. But Villains and Vixens has been announcing Instagram posts here or there, several of their uh panels that they'll be having, like who the who the authors are gonna be, who the moderators, and what the subjects are, like the the topics of discussion. But it I you you'd have to go to each individual post and do all that. And I wasn't gonna do that. Because I looked on their website and it wasn't listed there. I did request to get on their they they other than Instagram, they do their a lot of their stuff through like Facebook group. So I asked to to join that, but I haven't been back on to see if I'm in that and if that has the information in one spot. Like I assume, if nothing else, at the event, they'll have like a booklet or something with all the information in one spot.

Ashley: 03:27
Um I think they're all just like standby events, like the panels.

Mari: 03:31
The panels are yeah, that you just yeah, you there you don't sign up ahead of time or anything. You just go to them. I assume it's just you know whatever capacity the room is that it's in. So they have a schedule out. Schedules on their website based on like your tier ticket. You can go in and see. Because I I did this uh earlier this week. So I was like, I feel very unprepared for this event.

Ashley: 03:53
Yeah, no, I mean it I you know, we bought it so long ago, I feel like. Um now it's almost like a little surreal that next that we're a week away from July and a month away from this event. Like I was just telling Jonathan, we still have to book the hotel. I haven't done anything in preparation for this. Um yeah, I I this one feels a little more disorganized. Um, like I don't think the the communications are going out quite as streamlined as maybe we're used to. Like, because to your point, like you just mentioned the website. I it didn't even dawn on me to go to their website. Like, why are they not sending Instagram blasts?

Mari: 04:26
Right.

Ashley: 04:27
We are spoiled, you guys. You gotta you gotta help us out here.

Mari: 04:30
Yeah, which I there to to be fair, they may have all this information in a really cool way on their Facebook group. I just I just asked to join that like last night, or I think it was yesterday maybe. So I'm just not used to doing the Facebook groups.

Ashley: 04:44
No, I don't know that that's any better. I feel like I'm in it, but I do feel like that that was a recent addition for me. And I don't think there's a lot of activity in there.

Mari: 04:54
Yeah. I don't know what the answer is because I know several events come across this. You you want to put the information out to people, but you don't want to spend all your time updating a website. You know, so I it can be kind of hard to get the information out to everybody.

Ashley: 05:10
Oh, good news. Full attendee information packet will be coming next week.

Mari: 05:14
Yay!

Ashley: 05:15
That was posted four hours ago. Asking he shall receive. Look at us getting our shit together.

Mari: 05:23
Yep, yep. I will say several authors who are doing pre-orders for this event. They their pre-orders on Baventi close like at the end of June, like June 30th or like July 1st. So if there's any that you're thinking about or looking at, you want to make your decision on that very soon. So I don't have many because I I've just been bad about reading a lot of these authors. A lot of them I haven't read. Uh there's a few I'm thinking about getting. So we shall see.

Ashley: 05:55
I liked I like for the event to tell me what I'm supposed to buy. I'm free-spirited. It's like going to Target, right? Like you don't go to Target with a purpose. And if you have it, you forget it. Target tells you what to buy. Except we don't shop at Target anymore. But like that's the concept. Those are the vibes.

Mari: 06:10
Yeah. I um I believe the only thing I've paid for and pre-ordered so far is there's gonna be several monster romance authors there. And Unfortunate Reads is doing Monstera, which isn't available anywhere else. Like you can't get it digitally anywhere. You can't buy it anywhere else. You have to buy it directly from her. It's a monster romance between a a Monstera plant shifter and a human. And it just looks very cute. So I've pre-ordered that because uh I had forgotten to do that at Monster Rotica Con, so I didn't get it there. But there's a few that I'm thinking about, a few things I'm thinking about getting. And then there's also like official villains and vixens merch, like t-shirts and hoodies and things if you're interested in that. That I believe the only place I saw you can get that is through their website. I believe there's a lot of things.

Ashley: 06:59
So as I'm scrolling the Facebook page that I've apparently been ignoring or my algorithm has not been communicating to me, or Facebook and I are gonna talk later. Yeah. Um yeah, I'm seeing the merch now too. It looks okay. I don't know that there's anything I'm super stoked about on here, but like I feel like that was the beef that I had with um Romana CBOCCon in years past, is that like there wasn't a lot of their own merch. I like to support events like themselves too, you know? And you want you I want to rep the things that I'm going to. Um and I think I missed out on their shirt last year for Romana C BookCon, and uh it sold out really quickly. So it's interesting that they're doing pre-orders. I think that's very responsible.

Mari: 07:40
Yeah.

Ashley: 07:41
Oh, there's one that says it's in my villains era.

Mari: 07:43
Yeah.

Mari: 07:44
I think I'm thinking about there's uh I think it just sawins and vixens on it, but it's like um, I don't know if it's a tie-dye, but it's like white with like gray bottling on it. It looks almost like marble to me. So I'm thinking about maybe getting that one because I like that it looks like marble.

Ashley: 08:02
Yeah, I guess I gotta do some more research now that we're like a month out. Yeah. So are you guys are you bringing the book cart? We should probably bring the book cart. I don't want to prepare for that appropriately.

Jonathan: 08:14
Sorry.

Ashley: 08:17
I'm excited for this. We haven't been to like a new book event, Jonathan and I, in a long time.

Mari: 08:22
Yeah. I think it'll be fun. I think it'll be a good time. It looks like they've got looking at their schedule I was looking at, it looks like they did um, you know, you can get in during the day for like before lunch to do the floor, and then they have a a break for lunch, and then in the afternoon you can either go back to the floor or you can go do the panels. So depending on which panels you're interested in, you can decide what you're gonna do. It looks like that's more or less the setup for both days for Friday and Saturday. Um I think that's all the villains and vixens thing I have. And you and you guys have any villains and vixens stuff?

Jonathan: 08:52
Aaron Ross Powell I do not.

Mari: 08:55
The only other thing I have is a little bit of Avatar news.

Mari: 08:58
 I think I missed the actual news, but I then saw people talking about it. Apparently uh the publisher for Sergei Mass Avatar books released that they will be or stated they'll be re-releasing the or releasing the Avatar hardcovers, like a in a box set to match the very bright colors of the paperbacks, which you guys know how I feel about that.

Ashley: 09:20
Yeah, and no nobody's excited about this, by the way. Nobody asked that. No, who is it, Bloomsbury? I don't even know. Nobody nobody asked you for that, my guy. Yeah, all we wanted were paperbacks for the new releases to match our ugly paperbacks that we already have. We don't want to buy expensive ass, ugly hardbacks.

Mari: 09:40
And it's a box set for a series that's not complete yet. No, like who's gonna do that?

Ashley: 09:48
The people who want their shit to match because they're forced to buy it this fall because nobody can wait. There's so much hype. You know what I mean? There's so much hype. And what's interesting, I think the because you know, Sarah J. Mass and her team elected not to renew like a ton of merch licensing. Yes, I was just thinking um, and that's about to expire for many, many, many people. So I'm curious to see, you know, hopefully some new merch, but I'm assuming that we're gonna have to wait for the book or books to drop.

Mari: 10:20
Yeah. I am yeah, I'm curious to see how that's gonna go because I I don't even remember the company. I want to say it's Lilac Library, but I I may be completely wrong. But there's a company that was selling um the book covers, like book uh slip covers for the Acatar and Throne of Glass books, and these slip covers are gorgeous. They're like dark with like gold gilding on the edge. They're beautiful, they go perfectly in my little gothy bookcase situation. So I have them for all the books that exist now. And I'm like, if they can't get the the the what's it called, permission or whatever to do for the new books, I'm not gonna be able to get them for the new books. Because like I was like, I don't care what crazy crappy color you make them, I will put the slipcovers on that I want for my bookcase. But now the company may not may not be able to make those slipcovers if they can't get um rights to do it.

Jonathan: 11:17
So but they could still do like um a generic, like here's this here's the size kind of and then here's black.

Mari: 11:25
Do what now?

Jonathan: 11:26
They could do like a generic placeholder for you until something else pops up. Like here. They could make something that fits the size and dimensions of the book, and they could just say, like, hey, here's a list of books that this slipcover fits on.

Mari: 11:41
I mean, I can I can make like a slipcover, I can paint something, do some little gold gilding on it or whatever. It's it it's okay, I guess. I would if it comes down to it, I will. I'm not gonna have like a flo phosphorescent neon orange situation happening on my bookcase.

Jonathan: 11:58
I I will put my foot down so for all the authors out here, a way to sell Mari a book is to make it black.

Mari: 12:08
Or dark color, dark green, dark blue, black moody when you turn the lights off.

Jonathan: 12:13
And then the way to sell Jonathan a book is to put a circle on the cover and paint the edges, and then um yeah.

Ashley: 12:22
And then make an audio book.

Jonathan: 12:23
Yeah, yeah, I gotta have an audio book. I need I buy trophy books to go to complement my audiobooks.

Mari: 12:29
Yeah. Well, I mean, here's the thing. Like if you're doing a hardcover, then you have a slipcover. So you have three potential moods or images you can offer. You have the naked book, which will be can be a color with some gilding or image or whatever on it. That's the same thing. Then you have one side of the slipcover, can be another color for people who want that color. And then you have the reverse side of the slipcover, which can be yet another option.

Jonathan: 12:52
Yeah. You dress your books up for holidays.

Mari: 12:55
Yeah. So we'll see. We'll see what what comes of that. But that's all I have for news, unless anybody has anything else. All right, so moving

Mari: 13:05
 on. Why did we pick labyrinth? Um Jonathan, you you brought it up, right? You suggested it, I think.

Jonathan: 13:10
It's the 40th anniversary this year of Labyrinth.

Mari: 13:13
Yeah. And we got Ash on board, who is not uh uh a lover of of Muppets or puppets, right?

Ashley: 13:20
It has been deemed and researched and decided that these are not Muppets, they are puppets.

Mari: 13:26
Okay. Okay.

Jonathan: 13:27
So you were on the street. She still doesn't like them. She doesn't like them.

Ashley: 13:32
Thank you for taking it for the team.

Mari: 13:34
Yeah.

Ashley: 13:35
This is probably the only one. Like this and like Star Wars are probably all about all you're gonna get. Like, past me.

Mari: 13:40
Yeah. And Kelly and I were on board. I love this movie. So I yeah, I don't need an excuse to re-watch this movie. I probably rewatch it at least once a year. Um, okay, so the synopsis of the movie that we're talking about here.

Mari: 13:57
 So, frustrated with babysitting on yet another weekend night, Sarah, a teenager with an active imagination, summons the goblins to take her baby half-brother away. When little Toby actually disappears, Sarah must follow him into a fantastical world to rescue him from the goblin king Jareth. Guarding his castle is the labyrinth itself, a twisted maze of deception populated with outrageous characters and unknown dangers. To get through it in time to save Toby, Sarah befriends the goblins in hopes that their loyalty isn't just another illusion in a place where nothing is as as it seems. So this was directed by Jim Henson, produced by George Lucas, and written by Terry Jones. I I know Kelly knows who Terry Jones is. Do you guys know who Terry Jones is?

Jonathan: 14:42
I I don't know who Terry Jones is. Who's Terry Jones?

Mari: 14:45
Do you have you ever seen or watched any Monty Python?

Jonathan: 14:48
Yes.

Mari: 14:48
He's one of the Monty Python guys.

Jonathan: 14:50
Ah. Oh. You know what? Now that now that you're putting let me see if I can connect. I mean I'm just gonna Google him real quick and see if that's who I think.

Mari: 14:58
So there are um several people who worked on writing this because it it went through different incarnations, but he's the one that got the the official writing credit was Terry Jones.

Jonathan: 15:08
Oh, very nice. Yeah. Co-created Minor Python's Flying Circus. Yeah. Very delightful. It's not the one that I wait, maybe it is the one that I thought. Well, it's hard to tell because he's older now. Yeah. Good stuff though. Yeah. I like that. Delightful.

Mari: 15:28
And then, of course, starring uh Jennifer Connolly as Sarah and David Bowie as the Goblin King, like the main people in it. It was released June 27th of 1986. So many, many decades ago. Um, it was the last feature film directed by Henson before his death in 1990. Oh. Yeah. And they had a budget, like it took them $25 million to make it, and it only grows $12.9 million. Dang. Yeah. With uh at the in theaters with a mixed reception from like critical reviews. But then afterwards, when it started getting like video released, it became a cult hit that it is now.

Jonathan: 16:08
That tracks. Yeah. I think Jim took Jim kind of hit like hit a whole bunch of like roadblocks in figuring out how he where his products belonged and or where his productions belong. Like he he did good work. He did great work.

Mari: 16:28
He just never quite The industry didn't know what to do with him.

Jonathan: 16:32
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's one of those like it's a rear-view mirror situation where it's like, here's this cool product. This is great. We love it. Awesome. And then it's just like, what do we do? And nobody figures it out until years later.

Mari: 16:44
Right. Well, I mean, Princess Bride was like that. Princess Bride didn't nobody knew how to market it, didn't really get that huge of like, you know, good reviews or anything, or or make a lot of money on the theatrical release, but like afterwards it really picked up steam. So I've got like a billion facts and trivia and stuff about this movie, but before I do all that, what what did we think of

Mari: 17:06
 the movie?

Jonathan: 17:07
Do you want to go first, Ashley? Wanna let loose?

Ashley: 17:09
Um Yeah, I can be the the Debbie Downer first. No, I mean it's it was it's an entertaining movie. I think some of the allure is slightly lost on me. Um because I would have been non-existent when this movie came out. So I don't think that I had I don't think it would have been introduced to me in my childhood. I probably didn't see it until I was maybe a teenager. And by then my my dislike for puppets and meepets was already was already set in stone. And I I who who brought this up? I don't even remember this being like a a cognitive decision that I disliked puppets until the last few years. I think it was Sarah, our friend Sarah, who was like, who hurt you? I don't know if it was like a traumatic experience. No, there was not that I can remember. And I'm probably blushing now, thinking about like, I don't know. There's not much that I really don't like, and I don't like puppets. Um it's not a terrible movie. It's goofy, it's a little funny, there's nothing too scary about it. You you see some really strong friendships, you know, develop in a short amount of time and just like common basic decency, and that's refreshing because shit sucks right now, right? In the world. Um, I it's really it was really heartwarming to see her forgive what's his name? Hoggle. Hoggle. Yeah. Yeah. So Hoggle makes a mistake, he sells her out in probably one of the worst ways, right? He lies to her along the way, even though he's trying to help her along the way. And then there's just like this big ultimate betrayal, and she just forgives him, right? And it was just so it was it was so cool to kind of watch it because it was seamless for her. He deserved forgiveness, right? His life had not been grand. Yeah. Um, so I thought that was really cool. She saves her brother. Not really sure what's going on between her and the Goblin King. Um, my brain didn't process that very well. And then it was just like this whole big sleepover at the end of the movie, which felt a little confusing. But like also, these were her toys, right? Like this was her imagination bringing some of her toys to life, which I didn't I don't remember remembering in the past. So, anyway, it's a good movie. I would I choose to watch it all of the time? No. Would I leave the room while it's on? Also, no. Okay. Um, I did have an interesting question that Jonathan thought was a good question. I I was like, were these are these original songs that were written for the movie or were they his songs?

Mari: 19:59
No, so um the the I didn't write down the name of the person who did the the score musical, like the score stuff, but the move the the songs with words were were done by David Bowie for the movie.

Ashley: 20:12
Right. So I had looked that up and I thought that was interesting because the songs themselves were not anything always directly related to what we thought the message of the movie was. It was entertaining. I wouldn't turn it off. I wouldn't, I personally wouldn't turn it on. But there was some cool stuff, like it was definitely ahead of its time.

Mari: 20:31
Jonathan, what do you think?

Jonathan: 20:33
Uh I like I like uh you know, when when times get shitty, it's always nice to look back at things that maybe made you feel good at some point or another. And when I look back to the first time that I watched Labyrinth, I was in summer camp at the uh Boys and Girls Club in uh Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, and I was just it was young, and uh just remember it being like a kind of a rainy day, we couldn't really do much outside that day, and we just all sat down in front of the you know the TV, the telecart, whatever it was. Say they rolled it out, rolled it out and popped it in, and we I sat and watched that that movie, and it was like it was just a pleasant experience. So anytime we can take stuff back to those to those moments, and with with our our our niece and nephew, like I'm hoping that we build those types of moments, not necessarily around this uh a a particular movie, but you know, like hey, remember like when they get older and they start to think about times that are anchored in positive experiences, like that that way when things get a little hard for them, they can go back and maybe they'll have a movie that they can pop on and um not maybe not necessarily emote, but just is soothing. Yeah, you know, so when the world is chaotic as it is right now, I just want to be soothed a little bit with some. Forced nostalgia. Forced perspective nostalgia. Yeah. I I liked it. I will say this. I'm doing some Googling for stuff. And uh Kelly, I don't know if you know this, but there's a market for full-size labyrinth door knockers. I'm looking at a set on eBay right now, $15,000 for door knockers. So if you're if you're into if you can create a Kelly, a high-quality 3D print, man, there might supplement your income. Yeah, I liked it. Um I'm not a fan of the music, I'm not gonna lie. I I'm not like the I'm not it's not a toe tapper for me, but I like the production of these things. I like the helping hands. I I uh trying to envision the coordination it takes. In in puppetry in general, right? You get like you have a head with a mouth, and then you have one hand. So when your puppet has two hands, you gotta hire, not higher, but somebody has to come be that other hand, right? So maybe you have uh yeah, like a right hander, somebody who comes in and handles that right hand for you, uh, or somebody will come in and handle both hands for you, and you gotta kind of react to it. So when we got into the helping hands scene, and you see there's there's two sets of hands making the face and doing like the mouth, getting that to like that has to take practice, a lot of time, effort, energy, the practical effects, like um uh how you know there was a dog and a dog, like uh, and uh and so like getting the cooperation there from from the animal, getting um, you know, Hoggle that what a what a great creation that was. And so I'm into puppets and animatronics like on the side, which annoys Ashley. But uh and it annoys her, I think, more so because now my uh younglings are kind of catching on to the idea of some of the puppets, and they want to stay always when they come over, they want to see the um the larger ones that we're working on, or my my nieces into some of the animatronic elements that we're building, which I want to foster that stuff, but anyway, side quest. Yeah, so like seeing these things on screen and trying to, it's from an era where not everything was CGI or even like modern puppetry is they'll develop like a it's a computer program. So you control with their with your hand off-screen, uh, and but it's an animated rendering that is working in real time with some pre-programmed elements, right? So that's not gonna be um at least not for me, that's not gonna be something I can access, but going back to 1986 and looking at some of the materials and some of the the way they achieve these things. Yeah. It it's more achievable to me today with adult, I have an adult paycheck. So now I can make some puppets.

Mari: 25:10
Anyway, yeah, puppet money.

Jonathan: 25:12
Yeah, exactly. That's what I you know. Any of you listeners out there who are wondering, save up, get some puppet money, you can play with puppets too.

Mari: 25:20
I love this movie. I I I have a tattoo of this movie on my body. I don't think I knew that. Yeah. If there is like a movie makeup DNA of Mari, there is a a huge part of it that is labyrinth, dark crystal, and never-ending story. That's my trifecta of like fantasy I grew up on. The imaginative things that Henson and and and the artists that he surrounded himself with did allowed them to tell fantasy stories that special effects didn't didn't allow them to tell yet. Like special effects now, I guess, yeah. But they didn't have that. So they had practical stuff. So what did they do? They, you know, created whole worlds of like crazy plants and creatures and puppets and you know, robot-like things to give this all of their fantasy worlds like this very lush feel. Yeah. Henson is just a master of that. Like you see this even in stuff that's not something you would think of as fantasy, like the the Muppets Christmas Carol is so rich when you watch it and you look at all the little details that are in it, because it's the same thing. It's all this world building where you're not just looking at, oh, okay, I'm looking at a screen and there's the main character on the screen. No, there's like things happening on the edge, and then there's like whole little biodome biomes and like ecosystems all around it that you may just see for like half a second. And part of that was the Jim Henson production, like them them making it and the the puppeteers, you know, acting and the people that were in it, but also like even earlier on, the like artwork for it. So Brian Froud had all these like sketches and things of all these creatures, these goblins and and things. And then he sent that to Terry Jones, who started to make the story, and then would just like look at this sketch that Brian Froud did and like not know anything about this character. There's no there's no notes of what kind of goblin this is, or or what backstory, or who what's this goblin's, you know, hobbies. But then Terry Jones would be like, okay, well, that that little creature there, that's gonna be the fierys, and they're gonna take their heads off, and this whole scene is gonna happen. And it's yeah, it's whimsy and creativity come together. I love it.

Mari: 27:39
 So I will say that if anyone else wants to know a little bit more about how the movie was made, there is a documentary that is available for free on YouTube. It is called Inside the Labyrinth. And it's like Jim Henson is doing a lot of the talking in it, but it's got a lot of other people of actors and artists and things in it. I re-watched it today. Um, I don't know how many times I've seen the documentary. I honestly don't know how many times I've seen Labyrinth. I don't have a concrete memory of the first time I watched Labyrinth. I feel like Labyrinth has always been in my life.

Ashley: 28:12
Just genetically in twine.

Mari: 28:14
Pretty much. Like we lived in so many places. We moved around so much. Labyrinth and and and dark crystal and never any story were always there, no matter where we were. They were my um my solids. So I it's a good, it's a good documentary. It's I think maybe an hour long, maybe a little less than an hour, hour, and it gives you a little bit of uh insight into how they created things. So I have a bunch of things, some from the documentary, some from other places, little tidbits of of that they came across when they were making the movie. The first thing is, and I I don't I didn't realize this until I saw the documentary, but of course, David Bowie doesn't do David Bowie doesn't do the um juggling of those crystal balls. Like he apparently tried to learn and he couldn't. So they have a professional juggler, Michael Mulchin, is like crouched behind him, like not even being able to see his own hands with his hand stuck through the cloak. So every time you see the Goblin King like messing with the crystal balls, just imagine this guy trying to do these tricks blind while crouched down behind David Bowie. Hilarious. Yeah. And there's a there's like a scene in the documentary of them trying to get this one scene right and just doing it over and over and over and over again because it's such a hard thing to do. Yeah, so David Bowie did the music for it, uh, but he couldn't get the baby to like gurgle. So like the dance magic dance song, there's the little baby gurgling sound in it that is in the song if you download the soundtrack. That's David Bowie doing doing a baby gurgle. That's an amazing baby to gurgle. So every time I listen to a song, I hear that. I'm like, yeah, that's David Bowie like gurgling like a little baby. Just gurgling along. Yeah. Here's a here's a tie-in uh for you, Jonathan, since you were recently watching these. So Dr. Beverly Crusher from Star Trek Next Generation. Her name is you know Cheryl Gates McFadden. She did the choreography for the ballroom scene. She was a choreographer before she was an actress in Star Trek. And for the goblin battles when they're doing the siege in the goblin city, all that choreography, she did that.

Jonathan: 30:26
Oh, nice.

Mari: 30:27
Yeah.

Jonathan: 30:28
Good tie-in. I like that.

Mari: 30:29
Fun fact. Um Hoggle, we were talking about the how cool the Hoggle Hoggle puppet is. So Hoggle has um, like the body of Hoggle had like a main actor, um, as a little person. And then there were actually a total of five puppeteers. So because each of the things on the face was like radio controlled. Remember 1980s, radio controlled by a different person. So like an eyebrow raising, or like the mouth opening, or like uh, you know, the cheek lifting, like all these things were done by individual puppeteers. So every time that you see Hoggle doing something, there were five people that had to coordinate with perfect timing for all of that to happen.

Jonathan: 31:10
Yeah. I I don't think people quite fully understand the amount of effort that goes into puppeteering when you s when you see a when you see a puppet and it's more than just the mouth and an arm moving. What how many people are actually in control? I would and I would say this if you're not sure about it, take both of your hands, raise them up above your head, and let one be a free hand and the other mimic a mouth, and just keep them above your head and see how long you can sustain that. Right. It's uh uh there's a lot of effort that goes into it, and then when you take um a person and you put the person into heavy, I mean it's not they do a good job of not making it heavy or distributing the weight, the heads of a puppet, like so the that full size, I forget his name now, the character that was like the larger uh yes. So when you have a full-size character like that, and they're just kind of like wandering around, there's the person in that suit, their head, their shoulders, they're not bearing the weight of that. That's all kind of structured with like hooping and and things like that, so that way it rests on your waist and it's you're not suffering through that load. But it takes it's a team of people.

Mari: 32:33
Yeah. And it still is effort to move it. So, like Ludo, when they first designed him and they were doing it and he looked really cool, and Hansen was like, How much is that gonna weigh? And it was like over a hundred pounds. He's like, We can't do that. You have to start over. So they had to scratch Ludo and start all over, and he still weighed 75 pounds, and it took two, two puppeteers to do Ludo.

Jonathan: 32:54
Yeah, there's and I'm sure that's there's uh somebody in the suit, and then there's some radio control features. Yeah, eyes, facial features, things like that. Yeah.

Mari: 33:04
So back to Hoggle. This is like a little bit of but this would probably be nightmare fuel for you, Ash. I'm so sorry. But like the things, the things people see in airports. So apparently uh a hoggle, uh a version, a puppet, one of the versions of Hoggle got lost on an airplane, like when they were, you know, as lost baggage. And when it eventually turned up in unclean baggage, it was in Scottsboro, Alabama. It was, you know, not in good condition, so they couldn't really fully restore it or anything, but it's restored and placed along with the belongings that that were else that were in that bag, and it's in a display case at the airport. Dang.

Jonathan: 33:37
Oof.

Mari: 33:38
Yeah.

Jonathan: 33:38
They found they kept it at the airport?

Mari: 33:40
Yeah. Now there's because there's multiple hoggles. Like there is a, you know, I don't we've it's been a while since we went to it, but there is a puppetry museum in Atlanta. And last time we went to it, they had a was it the dark crystal exhibit or the labyrinth exhibit last time we went, Kelly. Do you remember?

Kelly: 33:56
I believe it was the dark crystal.

Mari: 33:58
So they had a labyrinth exhibit with the with the throne and and the hoggle and a bunch of stuff, and then they've also done a dark crystal exhibit. If you are in the if you're interested in puppets at all and you're in the Atlanta area, do yourself a favor and go there. They have some of the original puppets, they've got like Kermi, they've got Miss Piggy, and they've got not just like the Muppets, but they also have like puppetry from around the world and from other genres. Um, but if you like the Henson stuff, absolutely, and you're in the Atlanta area, it's worth it going to that museum to see that stuff.

Jonathan: 34:30
Yeah.

Mari: 34:31
And apparently the officially, according to like they did a novelization of Labyrinth after the fact, Hogel is a well, Hoggle's supposed to be a gnome according to the novelization, but Brian Fraud, who created all the characters who did all the drawings, said that he was half dwarf, half goblin. I can see that. Yeah. Let's see. The the owl that's used in the in the beginning sequence, the white owl that you see, is computer generated, and it's the first attempt at a photo-realistic CGI in a feature film. Oh. That's how cutting-edge they were for their time. You know what I mean?

Jonathan: 35:02
Um yeah. Oh yeah. There it's it blows my mind. Uh Mario, I'm gonna drop a link to that on to the Jim Henson Atlanta stuff in our I'll wait in the car. There, you know, Jim Henson, the creature shop, they're experiencing a moment right now. And I'm not sure. Um I don't know if people quite realize how much of our society they Jim the just the work of that um of the Jim Henson studios, how how much they've touched, whether it's early childhood education, family uh entertainment, deeper storytelling, and adult entertain not adult entertainment, it's like trip, you know, ex kind of stuff, but like, you know, like just deeper, more cerebral, thought-provoking stuff. Even like bringing stuff into the work that they do for children and storytelling. And even now, they're just they're they just released a whole new like dance party for kids on um, I forget what platform it is, but they stream, he's streaming across Disney Plus, Prime, Apple TV, Netflix, you name it. He's on that service. PBS has some stuff that's still rolling through. But like, I don't know if there's a broader, more accomplished team today. That's in it's just interesting to me.

Mari: 36:23
I mean, Stephanie Legendary.

Jonathan: 36:25
Yeah, I wrote you can romanticize the movie. I'm gonna romanticize puppets.

Mari: 36:28
I mean, I will romanticize both. I love practical effects. Like, I love when they use and when they create real things because I know that that means that if I watch the movie five, ten, fifteen years afterwards, it's still gonna look just as good. You know, as opposed to CGI. You go back, you you look at these CGI movies, and it just looks so bad once the technology has gone beyond what was available at the time of the original creation, you know? Um let's see what else. Oh, the movie uh Legend, the 1985 release Legend, which I honestly didn't watch till I was an adult, but it was being filmed at the same time as Labyrinth, and so the crews would like intermingle on breaks and things, which I know legend, a lot of people love Legend. Um I think I didn't I think I might have watched the first time I watched Legend was after I met Kelly. I think you and I watched what was for me the first time watching Legend, wasn't it, Kelly?

Kelly: 37:20
Possibly.

Mari: 37:21
Yeah, I think so. Um have you guys seen Legend?

Jonathan: 37:25
I don't think I have.

Mari: 37:28
It's Tom Cruise before all his plastic surgery, and it's Tim Curry as like this badass demonic creature with ginormous horns that eventually gave poor Tim Curry like neck problems who were so big.

Jonathan: 37:40
Oh that sounds interesting.

Mari: 37:42
Yeah, it's an interesting movie. It just I don't I I didn't grow up watching it like I did The Labyrinth, and so it doesn't have the same pull for me. The other thing that I thought was interesting is they didn't actually for sure sign David Bowie until like two months before they started production. So they were still trying to figure out who was gonna be the Goblin Prince, and they were like knocking around ideas, it could have been Michael Jackson was one they were looking into. Prince, Sting, McJagger, any of those could have been the Goblin King.

Ashley: 38:14
So, like, was their goal always like a famous singer?

Mari: 38:18
No. So they had um some actors in mind, I think Kevin Klein was even one they were looking at um at one point, and then they decided, you know, because there were different like versions of the script because Terry Jones wrote the script, but then Hansen changed it a lot. So Hanson changed it to where it's like a female main character, and it was a little bit more about like coming of age story versus the original Terry Jones stuff had it more about like the labyrinth itself and how we can't control things. So in in the midst of all that changes, at one point they decided, oh, we need we need the Goblin King to have rock star energy. And that's when they started looking at these these rock stars, basically, these musicians. Interesting. Yeah. 

Mari: 39:00
And they went with um David Bowie, which now I I can't imagine anybody else doing it. Um that's why, as excited as I might be, every time there's a rumor about like the labyrinth getting a sequel or remade or whatever, I'm just like, oof, but if you're gonna have the Goblin King, she may not. You can probably do Labyrinth without the Goblin King, I guess, do something in the Labyrinth world. But if you're gonna have the Labyrinth King, who's gonna be who's gonna be Jareth, you know?

Jonathan: 39:25
Yeah, I don't think everything I don't think everything needs a sequel. Yeah.

Mari: 39:30
I agree.

Jonathan: 39:31
I think I think you could do like I I like seeing new inventive stories. So it doesn't if we if we say that it goes if there was a if there was to be a sequel, would you look at the updated because they would update Hoggle, I'm sure. Could you look at it?

Mari: 39:52
Well, I mean, does it have to have Hoggle? Can it just be in the world, but it'd be other characters, other things? You know what I mean?

Jonathan: 39:59
Could it be in a world world where yeah in a in a world where the main character daughters uh has a similar, but it's her imagination, so it's not the same, it's not even the same with the colour.

Mari: 40:16
That could be interesting.

Jonathan: 40:17
Yeah, it's uh it's uh it could be a wild you could you could call it the labyrinth if you need I don't you know it's not needed. Yeah I think lean into the one we have and see where new stories can take us as well. But I do think that's the concept. What uh what modern if you were doing like a spin-off but it's not in the same world, same premise, but not in the same world, which singer would you choose today, Mari? That's a Mari question.

Mari: 40:49
Chappelle Roan.

Jonathan: 40:50
I have no idea who that is. I'm gonna have to Google that. Hot to go?

Mari: 40:53
Pink Pony Club.

Jonathan: 40:55
Um uh uh He doesn't verify things.

Ashley: 40:59
Is that how big he knows the song?

Jonathan: 41:01
You said Chopin?

Ashley: 41:03
No.

Jonathan: 41:05
How do I spell this?

Ashley: 41:06
Yeah, she'll say she I she's kind of like a gay. I see where you're going with this. Yeah. And I'm a fan. Yeah. I don't know a lot about her, but she's she's spunky, she's a gay icon. I don't know if she's actually gay, nor does it matter.

Jonathan: 41:22
She says shope royale.

Ashley: 41:24
No.

Jonathan: 41:25
What is what are we saying this?

Mari: 41:26
Mari say your name again. It's C-H-A-P-P-E-L-L for the first name, R-O-A-N for the last name. I'm sure you've heard the songs. You but if you hear them, you're like, oh, yeah.

Jonathan: 41:38
I heard H O T T O H T O.

Mari: 41:41
Yeah.

Mari: 41:42
Yeah.

Jonathan: 41:43
Uh I listen, I'm not gonna if it if I if you were like, hey Jonathan, text this, there's at least three days where I'm walking around going chapel roan, chapel roan.

Ashley: 41:55
You know, so I think sh I don't know that she doesn't say it that way. Like I think it's just one of those Oh, I like I may be saying it wrong.

Mari: 42:03
This is a case where I have read the name five billion times and listened to the music, but I don't necessarily listen to people talk about her, nor have I listened to a lot of her interviews. So I may be saying it completely wrong. That that may be one of these Mariasms.

Ashley: 42:19
Yeah, I think it is Chapel. Okay. Um, but I'm not a thousand percent sure myself.

Jonathan: 42:24
I'm zero percent sure of anything right now, but I'll tell you what, I like the I like the look, uh I like her, I like the look that I'm looking at these pictures. I like the look. Who's the only who's the who's the Christmas lady that I like, Ashley?

Mari: 42:36
Sia. Oh, Sia would be cool. Yeah. Who would you do, Ash?

Ashley: 42:41
I I don't know that I have a quality recommendation here.

Jonathan: 42:44
Um Jelly Roll.

Ashley: 42:46
No.

Jonathan: 42:46
Just checking.

Ashley: 42:47
We're not sure how we feel about jelly roll this week.

Jonathan: 42:51
Oh, okay. I'm not caught up.

Ashley: 42:53
Yeah, I don't know that I can top chapel. Going in the male vein, maybe like Sam Smith. Um, and not because I think he's spunkier now than he used to be. He used to be more of a crooner just in the the songs and the ballads he would sing. But I think he's spicy and I think he's probably got some David Bowie vibes.

Jonathan: 43:13
Oh, yeah. Another solid one I think could be the lady who does songs with her brother. Um Billy Eilish? Yep. Okay.

Mari: 43:23
I was like, there's several people.

Jonathan: 43:25
Yeah. Yeah, Ashley's got Ashley's here because Ashley speaks Jonathan.

Ashley: 43:29
Like he does. She knows sometimes she needs more words.

Jonathan: 43:33
She knows exactly.

Ashley: 43:34
But I was trying to think of like what singers you would know about that kind of limited theory.

Jonathan: 43:39
You're working overtime with you got you definitely got Christmas lady on the first shot.

Ashley: 43:43
Yeah. No, you love Sia.

Jonathan: 43:45
But only for Christmas.

Ashley: 43:46
Could you imagine her walking out as the goblin? And she should be the Goblin King, but like with her wig where you can't see her eyes. Yeah. That would be pretty iconic.

Mari: 43:55
That would be cool. So the baby who played Toby in the movie is the Son of Brian Fraud, who did all the all the drawings, who did all the conceptual drawings. So it was their baby, is the one who played Toby. And of course, he's now a grown adult person who still like does things for like labyrinth and puppet stuff and kind of is still in the in the family, so to speak. 

Mari: 44:20
You mentioned um earlier, Ash, that like when you watched it, you saw that the characters from the movie were in her bedroom. There were things pulled from her bedroom. And the more you watch it, the more you see like everything is pulled from the bedroom. So there's like Sir Dedimus is on the dresser. There's a doll that looks like Ludo that's on one of the shelves. There's a fiery doll on one of the shelves. One of the bookends looks like Hoggle. There's a Jared like doll on the right side of the mirror that she looks in when she's putting on the lipstick. And if you look at the pictures of like her mom, that's on the mirror, one of them has David Bowie with her mom in the newspaper clippings.

Ashley: 45:01
Amazing.

Mari: 45:01
Yeah. The white dress that she wears in the ballroom scene is in like the little music box doll has is wearing that white dress. There's a labyrinth like game, those like old like balancing labyrinth box games. Is she has that in her room?

Kelly: 45:15
There's an MC Azure painting.

Mari: 45:17
Yes. The MC Esher painting like from the from the end. Like there's it's all in there. So, which leaves people to have all sorts of like theories about the movie. Like, is the whole thing in her head? Is one thing that people say. It's all just hallucination. It's all in her head. And it's funny because as I've watched this over and over from when I was a kid up until now, I see and and have experienced different versions of the story. Like when I was younger, it was just like a cool story about, you know, having friends and like, you know, making friends and game, going through life together and all that stuff. The power of friendship. And as more of an adult, you're like, oh wait, but this is also about like, you know, a coming of age, like kind of letting go of childish things, maybe, and kind of getting to become responsible for your for your own actions and the consequences of your actions. But there is a YouTuber that we saw, and I'm sorry I didn't write down the name. I'll I'll poster stuff on an Instagram story or something when this episode comes out, um, who has this interesting, he didn't come up with this theory. I've I've seen other people do this theory, but there's a theory that, like, the Goblin King is not the bad guy. He's really just doing what Sarah wanted. So he's like a fay that has to be, can only do what he's told because Sarah has all the power. And so in the beginning, she's like, take my take my take this, take this baby away, he takes the baby away. She wants to like prove herself and go through adventures and hard times and dangers untold and hardships unnumbered, he creates them for her. You know, she wants to be brave, he makes her afraid. You know, he makes he becomes scary.

Jonathan: 46:58
He set the stage for what he does.

Mari: 47:01
What she wants until she dismisses him, until she says, You have no power over me. And then she's done with him.

Ashley: 47:08
That's like the definition of fuck around, find out. Yeah, is really what happened there.

Mari: 47:13
Yeah.

Jonathan: 47:14
I gotta I gotta back up just a little bit to Toby Fraud. His whole life is puppetry. Yeah, and like film, like I didn't realize this. His his parents met on the set of uh Dark Crystal. Um and then he was born in '84, but he was um working on Labyrinth. And in case like his his work as a sculptor, fabricator, and puppeteer at Leica, which is like one of the most intricate, intricate stop motion production houses on the face of the planet. Like Paranorman, Missing Link, the he's just like the the the box trolls. Like they're they're just like I didn't realize that. So that was a thank you for um pointing me in that direction, Mark.

Mari: 48:01
You're welcome. He's been at DragonCon a few times, too.

Ashley: 48:04
Also, shout out to Lisa Henson, who's the CEO and Brian's brother. We do not forget our ladies.

Jonathan: 48:10
Yes, Brian's mother. Brian's sister of my sister.

Ashley: 48:13
I was reading. Um, so Brian is the chairman, Lisa is the CEO.

Jonathan: 48:19
She keeps the wheels on.

Ashley: 48:21
We she probably keeps him in check. Let's be honest. She's really pretty too. I just wanted to make sure we recognized both siblings.

Jonathan: 48:30
Brian's pretty too.

Ashley: 48:31
Oh, yeah, he's dapper.

Mari: 48:33
It was um interesting when I was I was doing more listening to the documentary than I was watching it. And so in my in my ears, it was Jim Henson who sounds straight up like Kermit. So it's Kermit talking to you about the labyrinth. So I'm just saying Yeah. Hard pass. It's either I love it.

Jonathan: 48:54
I definitely you can definitely hear Kermit come out in his everyday voice.

Mari: 48:59
Yeah.

Jonathan: 48:59
And then, like if he goes down and grumbles a little bit, then you get that role.

Mari: 49:04
Yep.

Jonathan: 49:04
Kind of eye, but it's it's there all the time. I love it.

Mari: 49:08
Yeah, same. Anyone else have any other tidbits about the movie they want to bring up?

Jonathan: 49:13
I liked that by whatever happened over the course of the of the film and her journey throughout the whole process, she the making amends when she gives him the uh the teddy bear and kind of like passes.

Mari: 49:26
Yeah, Lancelot.

Jonathan: 49:27
Yeah, yeah, she like, yeah. I thought that was I thought that was pretty cool. Her her capacity for forgiveness, huge. And her willingness to there's no if it went when she was when she went down the hole, there's no way she I would have been like, take me back up to the light. I want to go down. She's like, I'm already going down. She's so down.

Mari: 49:51
But I mean, even that is an adulting lesson, right? Like, make sure you have all the all the information before you make your choices because you're gonna suffer the consequences regardless. You know, she was like, Was this the wrong? And she's like, Too late, you made your choice.

Jonathan: 50:05
Yeah. A thousand percent. I love this.

Mari: 50:08
I do like at the end too, where it's like, yeah, it's a coming of age story, it's a you know, learning to deal with the consequences of your actions. But even at the very end, even as she's like started to grow up and and come into her own at the end of the movie, she still invites those like things of her childhood and whimsy to still be a part of her life ongoing, you know, to bring that into her adulthood, which I very much like this particular time I watched it, I was like, yeah, more whimsy, please. Thank you.

Jonathan: 50:38
Exactly. Exactly.

Mari: 50:40
Ash.

Ashley: 50:41
Nope.

Jonathan: 50:44
What is it? What do you mean, Ash? What do you mean? What are you noping?

Ashley: 50:47
Are you gonna are you gonna ask me if C V seeing David Bowie in his in his tight cotton pants maybe did something to adolescent Ashley? The answer is not no. But if you're gonna ask me if this is a kissing book or a kissing movie, I don't I don't see it.

Mari: 51:04
Fair, fair. I I I believe the same thing as you. David Bowie, wonderful. Goblin King, great performance. Is the story itself uh a kissing book? No. No. No. And that's fine. It's still wonderful. It wasn't it wasn't romantic at all. It's like friendship. It's it it it celebrates friendship, it celebrates forgiveness, it celebrates, you know, knowing yourself and coming into yourself. Uh but yeah, it's not necessarily about romantic love. What you got, husband?

Jonathan: 51:32
I I'm gonna say it is. So tell me more. I'll tell I'll say, I'll give you a little bit more. She definitely is challenged to kiss Hoggle and to make him a Prince of Eternal Cinch. Yeah. And I think in doing so, so the challenge was he was enamored by her, he was in love, and then the Goblin King was like, hey, that shit's never gonna happen. You don't stand a chance with her. As a matter of fact, if that ever happens, if she ever kisses you, if she ever looks at you that way and kisses you, I'm gonna make you, I'm gonna make whatever. Even though it's the shittiest place on earth, I'm gonna make you that prince. She definitely saw past him and uh his physical appearance, much the way Ashley sees past uh mine, and uh and and found the space for him in her heart. And without him and her relationship, that story doesn't reach a resolution. I'm gonna call it a kissing book.

Mari: 52:32
You're welcome to your opinions. Kelly, what do you think?

Kelly: 52:36
No, it's not. It's I think a lot of people fail to look back on because they have nostalgia for this movie, is that there is some problematic stuff with this, especially if you're in the camp of there being some kind of love story between the two main characters, because obstinately Jennifer Connolly's character, Sarah, is obviously, or at least presumed that she is underage, and David Bowie's character obviously is not.

Mari: 53:04
Yeah.

Kelly: 53:05
Which is problematic.

Mari: 53:06
Yeah, yeah. So like the Sarah Williams character is supposed to be 16. Jennifer Connolly herself was 14, and I believe David Bowie was like 38 at the time of this filming. That's what 38 looked like then. Goodness.

Jonathan: 53:21
They had good uh collagen injections.

Mari: 53:25
So apparently one of the versions like the Terry Jones did, had David Bowie and Jennifer Connolly kissing in the ballroom scene. And David Bowie was like, no, no, this is inappropriate. And so they took it out.

Jonathan: 53:38
Good for David Bowie.

Mari: 53:40
He's good people. He was good people. Yeah. What a wild time. Yeah. No, I'm I'm definitely with you, Kelly. Like it's not. It's it's you can romanticize the Goblin King if you want to. Like that's it's it's a fairy, it's a fae, it's fairy, it's like that's something that's you know, a big part of fantasy romance and romanticity that we enjoy. But that doesn't mean you that you necessarily want him with this like, you know, 16-year-old character, 14-year-old actress.

Jonathan: 54:06
I I don't think I ever saw it as that. Like I never saw it as a relationship between those two.

Kelly: 54:11
Well, I think it's implied because you know, in the beginning when she's you know, talking to Toby before the kidnapping, she's talking about how the Goblin King was madly in love with her. You're right. And granted her these powers or whatever, you know. Obviously, she was talking about the story she was making up, but I think it's implied there. So it's it's definitely somewhat problematic for people who seem to fall into the idea that there was some kind of romance between the two.

Mari: 54:38
Yeah. I think it's um almost like the the idea, like yeah, she's so young in this that it's the idea of love, the idea of romance rather than the reality of it. Uh you know, because so many of those fairy tales do have, and they lived happily ever after. There's like a love story aspect to to so many of them, even you know, the more like grim fairy tale types. However,

Mari: 55:01
 if you enjoyed this movie, I do have some recommendations, some book recommendations. The first one I have is Between by LL Starling, and I've talked about this before. I read this like two years ago. It's like a thousand pages. It's a great audio listen. The author was inspired by Labyrinth, and in in the description of the book, uh, it's described as a bewitchingly cozy, fiendishly funny, cautionary tale about the perils of gate-crashing fairy tale kingdoms, particularly ones with drunken unicorns, bored dragons, and sorcerers in tight leather pants. And she has said she was influenced by Labyrinth when when when writing this. And it it shows. There's lots of little like tidbits. It's a great story. Don't let the big length um scare you away. She is writing the sequel. I don't know if there's no release date on it yet or anything, but she is writing the sequel. Um it's technically two books in one, because it's like everything that happens from one character's perspective and then the story from another character's perspective. And that's all I can tell you without spoiling it. But it's a good, like, it's not heavy. It's like, what would I compare it to? I guess like Assistant to the Villain, like that kind of a vibe.

Ashley: 56:13
Oh, so fun.

Mari: 56:14
Yeah, it's it's very light. The other one that I would recommend is Until the World Falls Down by Jordan Lind, I believe. And I'm not trusting my own spelling, I'm sorry. But the dedication on it um says, To those who know the devastation of a broken heart, to those who have fought to heal from one, and to those who have always wanted to be swept away by a goblin king. This one is a adult, dark romancy, spicy situation. I am not done with it. I'm like 40% through, but it's definitely got labyrinth, like adult labyrinth wise. Everyone's an adult in it. There's also a book called The Unsealy Prince by Catherine Ann Kingsley. And it's A Cursed Woman is abducted by a monstrous Faye Prince who offers to grant her deepest wish if she survives his deadly maze. This one has like five books altogether. I have not started this one, but it's got great reviews, and it's very much like a if you like the labyrinth, you would you would enjoy this. Um, and then we have Dream by the Shadows by Logan Carly, and it's Beauty and the Beast Meets Labyrinth in a YA romantic about a deadly dream world and the shadow-cursed girl who must dare its depths to save her family, all while she falls in love with a dark prince. And then the last one I had is not a romance book, but it's Nine Goblins by T. Kingfisher. And this one is if you wanted a story told from the perspective of the goblins in the little goblin army at the goblin city, this is it. It's a short novella. It's just a little like adventure thing of these ragtag, you know, ragtag goblins in this, in this army and a little adventure that they have. It is a cute little story that it's it's an earlier T. King Fisher book uh or novella, whatever, but it's it's really cute. I would recommend it if you would like a story told by a little more about the the goblin army themselves. That's what some of the the soldiers in it, that's what this story is. Anyone else have any like labyrinth wrecks or books or anything? No.

Jonathan: 58:15
I I got Muppet Wrecks.

Mari: 58:20
I know that there's like a few labyrinth making of the movie books, and I know that there's also some graphic novels that tell more stories like before the labyrinth movie and after the labyrinth movie. I'm I'm not great at reading graphic novels. So I I don't I don't I haven't read them, I don't have a lot to say about them. Um, but they they have more story to them, if that's something that interests you. Any other movie or book rec or anything? Or anything else we want to bring up before I wrap it up?

Ashley: 58:48
No, I'm done with this one, you guys.

Mari: 58:50
It's been fun. Thank you for your service, Ash. I did a good job. You did. I would give you a lollipop if we were in the same room. Jonathan, get her a lollipop.

Jonathan: 59:02
Oh, I'll get her sucker. I'll get her sucker. Yeah. I'll get her a sucker. Don't worry. You don't worry. I'll take care of that.

Mari: 59:08
Problem solving. All right. On that note, moving on.

Mari: 59:12
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Mari: 59:52
Bye.